Ive been a bit of a gun show podcast junkie for well over 12 years. It started with Kenn Blanchard’s Black Man with a Gun podcast and Gun For Hire Radio podcast. Obviously, there are now more pro-gun podcasts since I started listening to them. I also found out there are several radio shows. Some of them are nationally syndicated like Eye On The Target Radio. Some of them are local shows, but you can listen to them online. And of course, all of the podcast outlets and other things like Facebook live and YouTube live makes it so much easier to take in content and do some “automobile university” of gun training.
One of my go to regular shows is Gun Owners Radio, which is put on by the San Diego County Gun Owners. It was started by Michael Schwartz whom I’ve had on my show, Riding Shotgun with Charlie. His co-host is Dave Stall. They have a number of other personalities regularly, and sometimes they rotate. I will admit that I’ve had the honor of being on the show a few times and even doing the show once from their studio in San Diego.
I was listening to a podcast released on July 4, 2024 titled “CCW Holders Nightmare”: CCW Holder Punished for Police Oversight. You need to check it out if you are new to carrying a gun, if you’ve been carrying a gun for a while, or if you think you are not going to be involved in a self-defense situation. Obviously, nobody wants to be involved in a situation that involves a lawfully and duly licensed or permitted individual to take out their firearm or worse to have to use it in a self-defense situation. It is good to learn how to handle this type of situation before something happens to you. We’ve all heard the saying that the best gun fight is the one that you don’t have. I really didn’t pay much attention to my surroundings before I started to carry guns and knives on my person.
The episode I was talking about was broadcast live on June 30, 2024. Schwartz arranged to do an interview with a gentleman whose name is Chris. He was involved in an incident while driving home. With two other cars on the road, he went to pass the slower one. The faster one in front of him jammed on the brakes, possibly to try and get him to hit their car. They pulled up aggressively next to Chris. He went through a red light to see if they were following him. And they were. The guys yelled at him that they had guns, he better watch out, and they were going to kill him. They even threw a bottle at his car. At a stop light where he couldn’t keep driving, one guy gets out of the car and approaches Chris’ car and tries to open his door.
He eventually pulled out his firearm and put it on the passengers seat. He is someone that has a concealed carry permit in the state of California. That should be proof enough that he is not a criminal, someone that takes training, and pays the fee to get permission from the overlords. While trying to pull his door open, Chris grabbed his gun and told the guy, in so many words, to leave him alone. The truck in front of him got the green light and he pulled off. He tried to de-escalate, escape, and avoid.
Pulling away in his car, he knew he shouldn’t go home, but kept getting stuck at red lights. The guys in the other car kept pursuing Chris and threatening him. The riff raff chased him and called the police when he pulled the firearm out. They kept the 911 call going while they were chasing after him. Chris ran a few red lights and got away within a few minutes. The other guys told the police that someone pulled a gun on them and they were telling the police where they were driving. Finally, Chris pulled onto his street and the police were there.
Chris was eventually arrested by the police. He was booked in the county jail for assault with a deadly weapon and brandishing a weapon at a vehicle. He had a high bail set. They issued a gun violence restraining order as well as took away the firearm he was carrying. He had 24 hours to get rid of the rest of his firearms at a local gun store and show a receipt they were turned in. He was locked up for nearly 12 hours and had 12 hours to turn his guns in.
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He had two fights to deal with; the gun felonies and the gun violence restraining order. The police were pressing charges with the GVRO. The county in which the gun charges brought also has an enhancement for using a semi-automatic firearm during the commission of a felony. If he were to be convicted of the charges, he would lose his ability to own firearms, to vote, and to get government jobs.
Schwartz connected Chris to one of his attorneys and he did an amazing job helping Chris.
Fortunately, the attorney was able to point out that since he had a CCW permit, he was the lawful citizen that was doing what he was trained to do. He was also able to prove that he wasn’t a criminal and does not have any prior arrests or convictions. The charges were dropped four months later.
When the other car pulled up the first time, they threatened him. The second time they pulled up, they had 911 on the phone. They thought they hung up the phone, but it was still connected to 911. Then they started talking about the havoc they were up to. It sounds like the police didn’t do their due diligence on the investigation. Even though the 911 call didn’t catch these guys, the call did not help them.
In the end, all the charges were dropped. The GRVO was dropped and became nothing. It was clearly a defensive gun use. He went to get his permit back and retrieve his guns. They took his license in November 2023, but in February the GVRO was finally dismissed. When he called the police to get his CCW back, he couldn’t get it back because SB2 had gone into effect. With SB2, anyone with any type of restraining order cannot have a CCW for five years. Even though the GVRO was thrown out, he was out of luck.
So his attorney took that case to the judge and said there was no due process. They took an accusation and used it to take his CCW. The judge wrote a decision, which doesn’t often happen at this level, and said this was Unconstitutional. Chris was able to get his CCW back.
At the end of the segment with Chris, Schwartz pointed out a couple of lessons that everybody needs to learn. He points out that whoever calls the police first gets to be the victim. The car full of people that was chasing Chris called the police first. The police ended up siding with the instigators rather than the law-abiding, permitted, firearms carrier. He also points out that the police are not your friends.
It might be easy for you to see who the good guys and bad guys are in your situation. But the police do not know that until they do an investigation. The police in this story did not do an investigation and they assumed Chris was the bad guy and the aggressor.
A couple of things that Chris could’ve done better are things you could learn from the book Crime Proof: Think Like a Criminal and Beat Them at their Own Game by Anthony Colandro. Again, the first lesson is to be the first person to call the police. We all know from being raised in families where there is more than one sibling or having more than one child, whoever calls the parents first gets to dictate how the story plays out.
The second lesson is rather than drive towards home, Chris could’ve driven to a police station. You don’t want to assume that would scare the bad guys away, but a call to the police station and then driving there with the perpetrators behind you is a good idea.
Chris was fortunate enough to get a judge who was smart enough to realize that Chris was not the bad guy in this situation. It’s also a good idea to have some sort of “concealed carry insurance” or legal defense fun. I personally am part of US LawShield. There are other options like Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, USCCA or Attorneys on Retainer.
Whats really important is if you carry a firearm for personal protection, you need to participate in some ongoing and continuing education about firearms and self-defense situations. Take a class that deals with the legal ramifications and aftermath of being involved in the shooting. Its not just the gun fight you have to win. You have to win the court case, the fight with yourself if you have taken someones life, and the court of public opinion. There are plenty of books on the topic, including In The Greatest Extreme by Massad Ayoob or The Law of Self-Defense by Andrew Branca.
If youre carrying a firearm, you need to have some sort of a plan before something happens. Yes, we cannot foresee every situation or how we think it’s going to happen. Not having any real plan is not the plan you want. You need to know how to handle the situation so you don’t get caught up in the legal system for doing something that you think is the right thing to do. And even if you do all the correct things, you can still get hung up in the process – the process is a punishment all its own. Let this be a lesson about why you need training, why you need a legal team, and why you should listen to 2nd Amendment podcasts and radio shows.
